14 people killed in a Russian drone and
missile attack on Keev, including
children. Let's speak to Sam Kylie,
who's the world affairs editor at the
Independent. Good afternoon to you.
>> Hi.
>> Um I wonder if we've become I don't
know. It does feel am I not to you as a
world affairs editor, but we have we
taken our eye are we taking our eye off
what is going on Kev somewhat?
Well, I think that's a very good
question and and the reason it's a very
good question is that I think that what
we need to see more of from Europe is
less words and more action and those
actions are going to be painful for us
for for Joe public both in Britain and
the European mainland. Um because it is
the case that the Russians are
continuing to prosecute a war against
Ukraine. It is the case that Putin
doesn't believe that Ukraine has a right
to exist at all. It is also the case
that Putin has designs on the Baltic
states and the former areas under Soviet
influence in Eastern Europe and uh he is
systematically undermining democracy and
the US president is very much in his
camp. So in that context Europe has to
be able to go it alone and that means
selling some very unpleasant truths to
the public. So what we've seen lately
for example is Karmama condemning the
latest round of attacks that included
the damage to the British Council. The
European Union threatening once again uh
sanctions against Russia. But we are the
the European Union rather is the second
biggest importer of Russian fossil fuel
products in the world. So if they cared
about Ukraine and the survival of Europe
in the face of Putin's onslaught, they
would have cut that off 3 years ago.
That is something they're going to have
to do. That means more inflation, uh,
fuelled inflation, imported inflation in
the United Kingdom. And then there's
going to be increased taxation because
we're going to have to pay to defend
ourselves and arguably perhaps expand
our armed forces with national service.
So, we're living in what the Chinese
call interesting times, not the
complacent times that have characterized
most of my life, to be honest. Um, is it
the case that perhaps that it's not that
they don't care about Ukraine, but that
all the consequences and all the actions
that that you just outlined there that
they would have to take, the government
would have to take in this country, for
example, as part of a wider blog would
make them even more unpopular than they
currently are.
>> Yeah, it would. It would be highly
unpopular to suddenly stand up and give
a sort of church alilian blood, sweat,
toil and tears type speech as I've just
written in the independent. But the fact
of the matter is that boomers and
generation X's like me have lived very
high on the hog on the American taxpayer
guarding Europe with its money with
their money and a very very complacent
period postcold war when we imagined the
world would suddenly be a very benign
place and sadly the truth is that the
next generations my children are going
to pay the price for that complacency
and arrogance that I blame fairly uh
squarely on my generation, but it is my
generation that are providing most of
the leaders around Europe. And it is
finally the the opportunity to fess up
and tell the truth.
>> In what way will they pay the price?
>> They're going to pay the price in terms
of increased taxation, increased
inflation, much more uh less levels of
uh disposable income and uh a much more
constrained life altogether. And then of
course in the background is climate
change. But since we're talking about
Ukraine, these are the and really we're
talking about Russian aggression. The
other thing that we've got to be very
very guarded about is the undermining of
democracy, the support for far-right
groups, the support for um kind of loopy
elements within uh social media that
mean that the traditional media is
deeply distrusted. A lot of that trust
has been it brings upon itself for
outright lies and misinformation that's
been pioneered in this country since
before the Second World War by the
British tabloid. So we've got a lot of
socks to pull up in order to defend this
wonderful existence that we have.
>> Oh god, goodness me. Um this is
incredibly depressing conversation but
very important Sam. Um the Russian
ambassador toddling up uh to the foreign
office in London today. Um, what's the
point of that?
>> Well, it's performative. It's a it's
again, you know, it's the equivalent of
a stiffly worded letter.
>> If you're killing large numbers of
civilians in Ukraine, um, then there is
can only be one reaction. If if the
European leaders and the British
government believe that Russia is the
threat that they say that it is, and I
think that their assessment is correct,
there's only one direction they can
take, and that is to start preparing the
population at least to pay for their own
defense. And that means an increase in
defense spending, and it means an
increase in fuel prices because we will
no longer or the Europeans will no
longer be importing Russian fossil
fuels. Sam, thank you very much for
talking to us this afternoon. That's Sam
Sam Kylie.